but in montana, in north dakota, in states like that, that money goes a long, long way. so it's a lot cheaper to buy those senators, and those senators are more than happy to make that money because it sort of frees them from the responsibility or the chore of having to raise money from actual average, regular americans. it's easier to get that $5,000 check or that pac money than it is to ask some regular american for a $20 contribution. >> so what do we do about this now? >> well, i mean, we're going to have to keep fighting the way we're fighting it. it's a propaganda war in a lot of ways. i mean, you have the insurance companies doing these -- these astroturf protests trying to sort of create this impression that this is a broad american mandate against health care reform. we see the polls. we see the numbers. it's obviously not true. americans want reform. they want it desperately. and i think we need to keep talking about it and keep pushing and keep calling and writing legislators and reminding them that they made a campaign promise to support and to reform the sys